Marc Pitman: Welcome to the Concord Leaders Podcast. I’m Marc Pitman, the CEO of the Concord Leadership Group, where we’re helping leaders try to keep focus and keep sanity as we move through these trying times. Today, our guest is Christal Cherry. She’s the CEO of The Board Pro. Christal, I am so excited to have you on Concord Leaders Podcast.

Christal Cherry: Thank you, Marc. I’m so excited to be here.

Marc Pitman: It is, yeah. Every time I’ve seen a presentation — for those of you who don’t know Christal, one of the ways I was introduced to her was a series of, it just seemed like all the webinars I registered for in one week, she was either a panelist or presenting. It was amazing. So thank you so much for all the wisdom you’re dropping, it’s really awesome.

Christal Cherry: Thank you, yes, I love it, thank you.

Marc Pitman: And in your time leading this consultancy and doing other things, what do you love about leadership and leading?

Christal Cherry: Well, you know, I’ve always been a leader. I’m the oldest of four girls, I’m probably the most outgoing of all my siblings, since I’ve always been pushed to the front to be the family representative, to speak up, to read the poem at the family reunion or the eulogy at the funeral. So I’ve always been pushed out front, and I enjoy the spotlight, I like being in the spotlight. So I think as a young person, I enjoyed that role. But now, as an adult, the best part about being a leader is being able to focus on the growth and well-being of other people, right? So I consider myself a servant leader — I feel like we’re all serving communities to make the world better. So for me, that’s the reward I get out of it. As a consultant, I’m able to go in and work with my clients and give them good, sound advice and counsel on whatever the project is we’re working on. Since I am in the board space, I work with nonprofits and talk to them about how to make their boards more effective and impactful, and that’s really just through training and education, because so many board members are clueless about what they should be doing as a member. So I can come in and provide some counsel on that. So it’s exciting to know I’m able to do that, and hopefully, by doing so, I’m helping people be the leaders they innately are, to make the world better. And then, you know, I also have a networking group here in Atlanta, the Fabulous Female Fundraisers, F3, a group that I founded. I appreciate the support and community that results from the common bond we have here. And although I am the founder of this network, all voices in this group are invited and heard. So I give everybody an opportunity to contribute and to shine. The webinars we create are facilitated by them, the research we do is done by them, we have people who blog, we have people who are experts in specific areas. The network is really just an opportunity for us to push people out to share their expertise with the world. I love being the leader who can make all of that happen. Really helping other people grow, I think, is the best part about being a leader. Being a fundraiser is thankless work, so if we can support each other and affirm one another and show appreciation through the work through F3, I’m excited to make that happen. So I think it’s natural for me.

Marc Pitman: You know, part of my background is a lot of years of fundraising, and that’s so true, it is thankless, and you’re usually the oddball in your nonprofit. So connecting with other oddballs who are like you is really helpful to know — this is what the nonprofit hired me to do, is to be weird this way.

Christal Cherry: That’s great.

Marc Pitman: As we talk through leadership, we often know it doesn’t always work the way we expected it to. Sorry about that, there was a weird — my thing muted, are you still there?

Christal Cherry: Yeah.

Marc Pitman: Okay, great, I’ll cut that and ask my producer to take that out, okay?

Christal Cherry: Okay, I put on my do-not-disturb.

Marc Pitman: Christal, you are a gem, I’ve not had this — this is going to be a good session. All right, so I’m just going to clap so protect your ears, all right. Well, as you know, as we go through leadership and leading, it doesn’t always work the way we wanted it to go. So was there a memorable time when you had a great vision, or you tried something, and it just didn’t work out the way you wanted it to?

Christal Cherry: Well, I think the memory that comes to me was once when I was a chief development officer, and I had about 11 people reporting to me. I thought we had a really great team, and I built relationships with them built on trust and authenticity, and really getting them to understand that I really had their best interest at heart, and that I wanted them to grow in their fields and in their work and in their roles. And I was given a directive by my supervisor to make some decisions that I knew were going to hurt some of those team members. And it was really a tough time for me. I first agreed to do it, to keep the peace, but I could not follow through with it. The relationship I had built with my team was more important to me than this decision I was going to have to make. So I eventually declined. I went back to my supervisor and told him I didn’t feel comfortable doing what he asked me to do, and it just didn’t work out. But I shared my concerns with him about this — I just felt it was going to be counterproductive for me to do what he asked. So I made a decision not to do that. I was trying to be politically correct to keep my job, but at the end of the day, I couldn’t. I just thought, there’s something bigger here. So I made a decision, and I left the organization. Sometimes you have to make those kinds of decisions as a leader — you have to be true to yourself and know what really, really matters to you. And to this day, although I’m no longer with that organization, several members of my team then are still really dear friends of mine, because they know I cared about them. All of us have now left that organization and moved on, but we are still a support system for one another, and that’s what really matters, to most communities. So sometimes being a leader means making a decision that might impact you in the end, but you just know you can’t hurt other people. So that was my experience.

Marc Pitman: Wow, good for you for having the courage of your convictions and being able to communicate that too, that is amazing.

Christal Cherry: Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Marc Pitman: One of the questions I have for you, since you’re the Board Pro — leading is challenging enough, and leading in a nonprofit perspective or space is even more challenging, as I often say, because the revenue isn’t from your clients, it’s from this other group that you didn’t get into a nonprofit to serve — you don’t think of serving donors, but that’s where the revenue comes from. But you’re teaching leaders to lead when you’re doing board training. So what’s it like — I guess the way you lead is pulling out, helping people lead in their innate way, drawing out of them the leadership abilities. What’s it like to come in and train leaders, teach leaders to lead? Any nuggets of wisdom you’ve discovered to help us with that?

Christal Cherry: Yeah, so I think a lot of board members you’re dealing with, who I deal with, are professionals who have been very successful in their careers — they’re bankers, they’re presidents, they’re CEOs, who know a lot more than I know. So I think you have to go in with a certain amount of humility, and recognize that in their own work and their own jobs and their own companies, they are leaders, right? So being a board member is a little different — just because you’re a really good CEO doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be a great board member. So there’s still some training involved, but I think you have to be humble and acknowledge them for the successes they’ve achieved. So you don’t go in with a know-it-all kind of attitude, you go in with respect and humility and appreciation for what they can teach you as well. A lot of times board members will say, “I’ve had to make decisions like this” — I’ve had times where I’ve had to deal with conflicts with employees, because board members sometimes have conflicts with one another. So you want to tap into those experiences as well. So I think the great thing about my trainings is that I don’t pretend to know it all — I come in and share what best practices are, I share what experiences I’ve had, maybe what some of my other clients have had. And then I allow the board to be who they are and bring their own experiences to the table, to help us with whatever it is we’re trying to accomplish. So I go in, I share what I know, I share the research, I share lived experiences, and then I tap into their lived experiences, so we can create the right plan that works for them. So that’s my advice — don’t go in and pretend like you’re the know-it-all, that you’re bigger or better than anyone else in the room. You have to go in with a certain amount of humility and appreciation for what people have accomplished in their own careers.

Marc Pitman: That is such good wisdom, because it’s so easy — it would be very easy to say, “Yeah, you’re great in that area, but this isn’t that area, and I’m the expert here.”

Christal Cherry: Right, exactly — command and control, sort of, “Just be quiet, sit down, and I’ll tell you how to do it.” But no, you’re going in there acknowledging them, and looking to see what — you see that shared experience, because after you leave, they’re still going to have their shared experience of whatever you facilitated for them.

Marc Pitman: So that’s great. Well, Christal, our conversation has flown by, and I really, really appreciate it. If there were one thing you’d recommend listeners to the podcast do to grow in their leadership after this episode is done, what would it be?

Christal Cherry: You know, I think even those of us who have been around doing this work for a long time, it’s still really important that you have either a mentor or a peer group you can tap into for counsel and support, and also to provide your own counsel and support. I think being a leader can be lonely, it can be stressful, it can be scary — sometimes you have to make tough decisions, sometimes you have to sit in meetings where there are uncomfortable conversations, and you can take that home with you. So I think having a cadre of professionals who you admire, who have done this kind of work, who have been in the shoes you’re in, and who can guide you along, help you cope, provide some advice, give some feedback, just be there to listen — it’s so important, and we shouldn’t underestimate that. So I’d say, if you don’t have a mentor, find one who you align with, or find a group of folks doing the same kind of work — CEOs, executive directors, vice presidents — who understand your experience, because they can empathize with what you go through every day, and provide the support you need, so you can be the best you can be. So that’s it for me — I have a whole bunch of folks I call when I need support, and it’s wonderful to have it.

Marc Pitman: That is super smart, there’s a lot of wisdom in that too. Christal, thank you so much for being on this episode of Concord Leaders. Where can people find you and find out more about your work?

Christal Cherry: Absolutely, so The Board Pro is theboardpro.com. You can email me at [email protected], and I’ll be happy to talk to you about your board and how I can help make it more successful. Thank you so much, Marc, for having me, this has been great.

Marc Pitman: Oh, you’re welcome. And I know people are going to want to listen to this again and again. So this episode, like all the episodes of the Concord Leaders Podcast, can be found at concordleadershipgroup.com/podcasts, with an S at the end. Please remember to rate and review us in your favorite podcatcher. And until next time, remember that healthy organizations start with healthy leaders.