Marc Pitman: Welcome to the Concord Leaders Podcast. I’m Marc Pitman, the CEO of the Concord Leadership Group, where we’re helping leaders keep focus and navigate through this really trying time. Today, our guest is Merridith Crowe. She’s the CEO and President of Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Low Country. Merridith, I am so glad you’re with us. Thank you for joining us today.

Merridith Crowe: Good morning, Marc. Thank you for having me today.

Marc Pitman: Thanks for being willing to reschedule during this whole pandemic craziness. I really appreciate that as well. And I’m glad you’re here.

Merridith Crowe: Absolutely. We’re finding our groove — I mean, that changes day to day, but finding our groove. I was just on a Chamber of Commerce call, and somebody said, “I’m not feeling creative today, I’m not feeling creative — are you guys feeling that during this time?” And a number of us said, “Well, it depends on the minute.”

Marc Pitman: [Laughs] Yeah.

Merridith Crowe: [Laughs] Yeah, exactly.

Marc Pitman: Well, so let me ask you, as part of the podcast series, I always ask leaders what they like most about leading, what they enjoy most. And I’d love to ask you that, and also, in this time, how does that work? So what attracts you the most to leadership?

Merridith Crowe: Let’s see. Well, you know, for me, it’s all about the mission. I’ve been passionate about Big Brothers Big Sisters for, gosh, coming on two decades. For me, it’s just — I like to lead to outcomes. We have lots of kids in our community who really are not having the kinds of access to opportunities that we feel like they should, with just a ton of potential latent within them. And for me, it’s that mission. Now, how you get to accomplishing that mission is another thing altogether. And for me, it’s inspiring volunteers to feel ownership about helping us accomplish our goals — certainly our staff as well. I love helping staff figure out a problem that they didn’t think they could disaggregate and get down to sort of root causes about how we can continuously improve. I love it also when we as a team really hit the mark when we’re being responsive to our clients, or to the families we serve. And also, I’m somebody who likes to tinker and innovate, so it’s kind of gratifying when I’ve got an instinct that staff may be a little bit reluctant to make a change on, but they have the trust, they embrace the change, and then all of a sudden we accomplish something new. That’s always super gratifying.

Marc Pitman: Oh, that’s got to be — how are you doing? You must be having multiple opportunities to do that during this time.

Merridith Crowe: Yes, we do. We’re making stuff up as we go, that is for sure. And we’ve also been in contact with Big Brothers Big Sisters agencies around the nation. So one of the interesting things about being in South Carolina, with a list of social distancing sort of unfolding, is really trying to figure out, as pace-setters for the rest of our network, how we’re going to handle that. So yeah, between being a webmaster and figuring out how we’re going to set up this giving page for Giving Tuesday, to figuring out how to apply for the PPP, we’re totally learning all kinds of new things right now. How do we engage with our Bigs and our Littles and families during this time? Our Bigs and our Littles are innovating. So it’s been interesting, I think, for everybody.

Marc Pitman: And for all of you listening, at the time of this recording, I’m also in South Carolina, and our governor has started loosening some of the social distancing stuff, or reopening certain things. So there’s all sorts of complexity in the mix.

Merridith Crowe: Yeah, we’re definitely going to be pace-setters.

Marc Pitman: Whether we like it or not.

Merridith Crowe: Yeah, whether we like it or not.

Marc Pitman: Yeah. So, what was a time in leadership when you tried something and it didn’t work? And what did you learn from that?

Merridith Crowe: Yeah, so I would say two things. One of my difficulties as a leader is being biased toward action, and the pace with which I move. I think sometimes, if you’re goal-oriented and have a vision, it’s hard to make sure that you’re reaching back and making sure your staff are on the same page as you, and making sure they’re following you. That’s been a growing opportunity for me generally. I would also say that Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Low Country is just a year old — we actually achieved independence last year from a host organization. The time it took to incubate was longer than anticipated. I would also say getting something off the ground and setting up volunteers and trying to get an event with a sponsor that’s a company with their own timeline — we had great ideas about how fast this was going to happen. We had to push it out two times and be responsive to the vendor and their needs, and natural disasters, which happen in Charleston by way of hurricanes and whatnot. Flexibility is something I think is super important as a leader, because in the nonprofit sector in particular, so much of what we do — almost all of what we do — is dependent on human behavior, and we’re beholden to our market in ways, and we have less control over, say, our supply chain, than perhaps we’d like on any given day. I really wanted that event to happen in October. It didn’t happen until December. That created some big pain points for us, but we were in this space of doing something for the first time. And as hard as I tried, and as many sort of silent temper tantrums as I was having — “How are we going to make this work?” — I ultimately just had to give up, again and again. And giving up really just meant taking a deep breath and saying, “Okay, how are we going to pivot? How are we going to pivot?” I suppose it’s good testing for the time we’re in right now — so much is uncertain. I just feel that flexibility and being willing to think creatively is important. I had a friend who was a meditation teacher years ago, named Steve — he’s out in Colorado now, but he was with Big Brothers Big Sisters. So Steve was a fundraiser, a meditation teacher, and the lead guitarist and singer in a cover band — interesting guy. And I called Steve up one day, didn’t say hi, just got on the phone and said, “Steve, talk to me about control.” And Steve said, “Okay,” and he sets off into this story about Chuck Yeager and The Right Stuff, and the test pilots and the sound barrier and whatnot. He’d be talking about all these test pilots going up trying to break the sound barrier, and one of two things is happening — they’re either ejecting or they’re dying, again and again. And then it’s Chuck Yeager’s turn — he gets up there, and at some point the force is such that it knocks him out, and he doesn’t know — he’s unconscious. And he wakes up, and he’s in orbit. So I think sometimes as a leader, we have to be willing to give up control, especially when we don’t know what the operating principles are. We don’t know all the operating principles right now, and sometimes the best course is to wait. So that’s something that — when I’m getting really stressed out and I don’t know the answers, sometimes I just need to sit and wait for additional data.

Marc Pitman: As a guy who happens to have that bias toward action like you have, meditation has been very helpful in this time, and it was shocking for me, because it was something I practiced 20 years ago and just — I knew I wasn’t good at it. So that was one of the goals I set, but it’s been really helpful this time. One thing I’d love to —

Merridith Crowe: You’re doing better than I am.

Marc Pitman: Well, it’s been helpful at the times I’ve done it. It’s just remembering to do it. And then trying to figure out what counts — does that nap in my bed count as meditation, or —

Merridith Crowe: Let’s put it that way — the half hour before I get up in the morning, does that count as meditation? [Laughing]

Marc Pitman: I think it could. Now I’m going to give you gold stars for that.

Merridith Crowe: Yeah, no, hey, I’m trying to give myself a lot of grace too. I think a lot of us need grace during this time.

Marc Pitman: What — one of the things I really resonate with is the — hurting, when you’re biased toward action, is that it’s hard to remember to look back and make sure your staff is with you. There’s a whole leadership adage a lot of speakers talk about — if you’re out there leading and you turn around and no one’s following you, you’re just out there. So have there been some things you’ve found that help — I mean, you have to have that bias toward action, that’s why you’re in leadership — but are there things you’ve found to help pull people along with you?

Merridith Crowe: Yeah, so I think one of my strengths personally — and I think this has a lot to do with growing up with some significant childhood adversity — is that I tend to look conflict in the eye. And for me, if things are going to be difficult, or we’re going to have to make big changes, or people are going to perceive change as difficult, as so many people do, my strategy is really to over-communicate.

Marc Pitman: Okay.

Merridith Crowe: And to let people know what’s in my head, and things I’m considering, and how this might affect them, and just really leaning into some vulnerability. So I might share with staff more information than some people might. Mind you, I have a staff of four, so I’m able to do that right now — it becomes more difficult the larger your organization is, how you cascade that change management down, so to speak. But I sit down in a room, face-to-face with staff, and say, “Okay, these are the numbers, this is what we’re looking at. Let me share with you what the board’s thinking is, let me share with you what my thinking is, this is what I think we’re going to need to be doing. What do you make of these numbers? What do you think we should do? Do you think our strategy — the one I’m proposing — is on track? Would you suggest we do something different?” And I believe in redundancy — I don’t think it’s a bad idea to keep talking about the same things over and over and over again, because that gives people a sense of stability. I took a class years ago which I think is really helpful, that we should always stress staying the same during a period of change.

Marc Pitman: So true.

Merridith Crowe: So that people can take some comfort from that. I think there’s a lot of wisdom to that. One of my favorite teachers is a woman named Suzanne Stabile, who’s an Enneagram instructor — her husband has pastored churches for decades, and one of the things he did as a practice was have the same meeting twice about a congregational issue, because there were certain people willing to respond the first time, and certain people who needed that redundancy to be able to think about what they wanted to say, and then they could show up and respond the second time.

Marc Pitman: That’s really interesting.

Merridith Crowe: Yep, yep, yep.

Marc Pitman: And stressing staying the same — what a great reminder, especially in a time like this, that the mission is going to stay the same, our goal is the families — that’s really good. Wow, I’ve gotten a couple pages of notes here, thank you. Thanks so much for taking time with us today, and thanks for all that you’re doing for the families you serve too. Is there any one thing you’d suggest listeners do right away when they finish this episode?

Merridith Crowe: Oh gosh, I don’t know, you put me on the spot. Right away — I don’t know, I think for me right now it’s all about counting my blessings, because I am a grumpy pants right now, because things aren’t unfolding as planned. Count your blessings — try, if you might, to think of ten things you’re grateful for. Go take a walk, get some vitamin D. Those are the only two things I can advise at this point.

Marc Pitman: That is wonderful advice. [Laughs] Very, very good. Well, Merridith, thank you so much for being our guest on this episode of Concord Leaders. I know people are going to want to keep coming back to that. And if you’re new to the podcast, you can find all the season one and season two episodes at concordleadershipgroup.com/podcasts. And I hope you’ll rate and review us in your favorite podcast listening program. Until next time, remember that healthy organizations start with healthy leaders.